12-06-2017, 08:51 PM
So ever since the dude from PrisonPlanet made the video accusing soy of lowering men's testosterone level and turning them into leftists (no idea how decreased masculinity leads to this) quite a lot of people have been running around calling any leftists they encounter "soy boys". Sadly, due to the ridiculous nature of such claims, nobody took up to addressing it but insteadthis happens:
(11-18-2017, 12:12 PM)Involution Wrote: I rarely agree with nico but I've gotta say almost every single response to this thread has been a false attack and a logical fallacy. I even thought it was a rediculous claim but the video is well composed and it presents a good argument.
So today I'll point out some things that are blatantly wrong with the claims put forth by PrisonPlanet on how soy is feminising and leads to a leftist view.
The video's point is based on these 2 statements:
3:06: "Soybeans contain high amounts of phytoestrogens organic compounds that mimic the female hormone estrogen in the human body. This reduces testosterone and lowers the male sperm count. Men who eats half a serving of soy a day have 34 million sperm per millimeter than those who don't."
First of all, the data provided is unreliable. The research mentioned was a Scientific American article. The research that was cited here is Chavarro et al. 2008's "Soy food and isoflavone intake in relation to semen quality parameters among men from an infertility clinic." The research found a 34 million sperm/millimeter reduction in participants who consume soy. This data is however unreliable, as the sample was not random but instead, a sample of 99 men from already subfertile couples.
Second of all, a huge amount of researches contradicts this finding. Messina, M. (2010). "Soybean isoflavone exposure does not have feminizing effects on men: a critical examination of the clinical evidence" states: "There is essentially no evidence from the nine identified clinical studies that isoflavone exposure affects circulating estrogen levels in men. Clinical evidence also indicates that isoflavones have no effect on sperm or semen parameters"
Mitchell JH, Cawood E, Kinniburgh D, Provan A, Collins AR, Irvine DS (2001). "Effect of a phytoestrogen food supplement on reproductive health in normal males." concluded that "the phytoestrogen dose consumed had no effect on semen quality."
4:50: Soy food sales increases, coinciding with testosterone drop
Apparently the guy can't also tell the difference between correlation and causation as well. Quite a lot of things happened in the last 20 years that could be attributed to this. No links that could lead to the conclusion that there is a causational relationship are shown.
And then comes the fans rumbling about how red meat is fantastic and it is real men's food.
Guess what? Researches shows that high consumption of red meat reduces testosterone level.
Afeiche, Myriam & L Williams, Paige & Gaskins, Audrey & Mendiola, Jaime & Jørgensen, Niels & Swan, Shanna & Chavarro, Jorge. (2014). Meat Intake and Reproductive Parameters Among Young Men. Epidemiology (Cambridge, Mass.) states: "Processed meat intake was associated with lower percent morphologically normal sperm while white meat fish intake was associated with higher percent morphologically normal sperm. Dark meat fish intake was related to higher total sperm count."
The second part of the claim is that soy leads to leftist view. The data shown is a twitter post that contains screenshots of leftists consuming soy product. Considering how this research was not done formally it is susceptible to cherry picking and many other problems. There is also the problem of correlation and causation, it is very possible that leftists tend to lead healthier lifestyles or other reasons for the correlation. (Which is very likely to be true, as studies have shown that liberals/leftists generally live longer
Conclusion: "Soy Boy" is bullshit and should be taken with a grain of salt (or a glass of soy milk).
(11-18-2017, 12:12 PM)Involution Wrote: I rarely agree with nico but I've gotta say almost every single response to this thread has been a false attack and a logical fallacy. I even thought it was a rediculous claim but the video is well composed and it presents a good argument.
So today I'll point out some things that are blatantly wrong with the claims put forth by PrisonPlanet on how soy is feminising and leads to a leftist view.
The video's point is based on these 2 statements:
3:06: "Soybeans contain high amounts of phytoestrogens organic compounds that mimic the female hormone estrogen in the human body. This reduces testosterone and lowers the male sperm count. Men who eats half a serving of soy a day have 34 million sperm per millimeter than those who don't."
First of all, the data provided is unreliable. The research mentioned was a Scientific American article. The research that was cited here is Chavarro et al. 2008's "Soy food and isoflavone intake in relation to semen quality parameters among men from an infertility clinic." The research found a 34 million sperm/millimeter reduction in participants who consume soy. This data is however unreliable, as the sample was not random but instead, a sample of 99 men from already subfertile couples.
Second of all, a huge amount of researches contradicts this finding. Messina, M. (2010). "Soybean isoflavone exposure does not have feminizing effects on men: a critical examination of the clinical evidence" states: "There is essentially no evidence from the nine identified clinical studies that isoflavone exposure affects circulating estrogen levels in men. Clinical evidence also indicates that isoflavones have no effect on sperm or semen parameters"
Mitchell JH, Cawood E, Kinniburgh D, Provan A, Collins AR, Irvine DS (2001). "Effect of a phytoestrogen food supplement on reproductive health in normal males." concluded that "the phytoestrogen dose consumed had no effect on semen quality."
4:50: Soy food sales increases, coinciding with testosterone drop
Apparently the guy can't also tell the difference between correlation and causation as well. Quite a lot of things happened in the last 20 years that could be attributed to this. No links that could lead to the conclusion that there is a causational relationship are shown.
And then comes the fans rumbling about how red meat is fantastic and it is real men's food.
Guess what? Researches shows that high consumption of red meat reduces testosterone level.
Afeiche, Myriam & L Williams, Paige & Gaskins, Audrey & Mendiola, Jaime & Jørgensen, Niels & Swan, Shanna & Chavarro, Jorge. (2014). Meat Intake and Reproductive Parameters Among Young Men. Epidemiology (Cambridge, Mass.) states: "Processed meat intake was associated with lower percent morphologically normal sperm while white meat fish intake was associated with higher percent morphologically normal sperm. Dark meat fish intake was related to higher total sperm count."
The second part of the claim is that soy leads to leftist view. The data shown is a twitter post that contains screenshots of leftists consuming soy product. Considering how this research was not done formally it is susceptible to cherry picking and many other problems. There is also the problem of correlation and causation, it is very possible that leftists tend to lead healthier lifestyles or other reasons for the correlation. (Which is very likely to be true, as studies have shown that liberals/leftists generally live longer
Conclusion: "Soy Boy" is bullshit and should be taken with a grain of salt (or a glass of soy milk).
Hasan